Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/21/1994 01:15 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 45 - CONTROL & FUNDING OF PUB & PVT SCHOOLS Number 454 REP. AL VEZEY, Prime Sponsor of HJR 45, testified that HJR 45 came about this past summer when Attorney General Charlie Cole issued a legal opinion stating it was unconstitutional to use public funding for transportation of private school students. Rep. Vezey researched the opinion and concluded that Attorney General Cole was 100 percent correct. He said HJR 45 would eliminate two sentences in the constitution delegating responsibility to the judicial system relating to public funding of private schools, and if the public votes in favor of HJR 45, then funding of education simply reverts back to the legislative branch and the administration branch, and removes the judicial branch from having oversight. Number 521 DANIEL CAMPBELL testified via teleconference from Seward in support of HJR 45, stating that it should be an option for the legislature. Number 541 VALERIE MAXWELL testified via teleconference from Seward in support of HJR 45, saying she would be pleased to see it move out of committee and before the voters. Number 559 VALERIE HAUER testified via teleconference from Petersburg in favor of HJR 45, and asked for clarification of the word "public." Number 577 DUANE GUILEY, Department of Education, stated that a simplistic definition of a public education institution would be one that offers educational opportunities to all students on a comparable basis, free of tuition and free of discrimination. Number 583 VALERIE HAUER said she is interested in a voucher system similar to what they tried to put in in California. Number 592 REP. NORDLUND said he had a few things he wanted to say about the bill before winding up here but, in terms of that definition, perhaps another addition to the definition of what a public education institution is that there is a governing body that is elected by the public that governs what goes on in that school, is accountable to the public, and therefore the tie back to the expenditure of funds to elected officials who are responsible for the expenditure of those funds, which you don't have in a private institution. Number 600 REP. PORTER said to a degree, if an institution is certified, it's under public control. He asked if a private institution wanting to provide education to K through 12 would have to meet certification requirements to qualify. Number 608 MR. GUILEY responded no, under current statute private schools that want to be accredited have to follow certain state statutes and regulations, but they are exempt from many other state statutes and regulations, one of which is the control of an elected governing body. Number 621 REP. PORTER asked if the state still provides certification requirements for those institutions. Number 625 MR. GUILEY replied that the state provides minimum statutory guidelines and regulatory guidelines, but does not have a specific certification process. MS. HAUER discussed home schooling and her concerns about the right to schooling choice. Number 645 MR. GUILEY said that home schooling is available to all Alaskans. Number 650 MS. HAUER testified that she would like public school facilities available to her children during school hours, for use of equipment, pool, and so on. Number 671 REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Hauer if she was under the state of Alaska curriculum. Number 677 MS. HAUER replied she was under the Christian Light curriculum out of Harrisburg, Virginia. Number 680 REP. PHILLIPS inquired if she had any connection at all with the Alaska school system. Number 681 MS. HAUER replied no, but she would be looking into the state curriculum next year. Number 682 REP. GREEN asked if it was the case that home schooled children did not have access to public school facilities, and if not, why. Number 688 MR. GUILEY responded that each local school district establishes policy in relationship to access to the facility for children and parents of children who are not enrolled in the public school system. He added that the Department of Education currently has out for public comment regulations that specifically allow for part time enrollment of students in classes such as chemistry, physics, physical education, and things that are not normally available in a home school environment. Number 714 DAWN GROSSMAN testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in support of HJR 45. Number 733 SHERRIE GOLL testified on behalf of the Alaska Women's Lobby (AWL) against HJR 45. Ms. Goll said AWL believes in maintaining the separation of church and state. Number 760 REP. PHILLIPS commented that there is nothing in the legislation that says anything about private religious schools. REP. PHILLIPS and Ms. Goll discussed whether HJR 45 would affect funding for private and religious schools. Number 784 REP. NORDLUND said he thinks that if you are taking the words out of the constitution, you are taking a prohibition out of the constitution, you are by default endorsing it, saying therefore, it is o.k. Rep. Nordlund said he thinks that is the way the court would interpret it, obviously, otherwise what would be the intent of this. He asked who are the schools that would be getting this funding if they are not private schools? He added that this is the practical reality, that is what the backup is, that's what the legislation history will read, and he thinks that is the way the court will interpret it. Rep. Nordlund continued, saying the effect of HJR 45, if passed, would be private religious schools getting state money. Number 795 REP. PORTER said his impression was that the effect of HJR 45 would make the question open for consideration and legislation and appropriations, by removing the prohibition, but it would not perform those things, nor cause it to happen. Number 802 MS. GOLL said the bill was introduced less than a week ago, and she didn't believe the public was aware this was happening. REP. NORDLUND said there was no fiscal note from the Division of Elections. Number 827 REP. PORTER pointed out there was a fiscal note from the Division of Elections. Number 847 REP. PORTER closed the hearing for public testimony and entertained a motion. Number 849 REP. GREEN moved HJR 45 with individual recommendations. Number 852 REP. PHILLIPS asked Rep. Vezey for position papers from the Department of Law and Department of Education. Number 862 REP. VEZEY said he had not requested position papers. Number 866 REP. PORTER asked if the Fairbanks transportation funding issue would be solved by this action. TAPE 94-6, SIDE 2 Number 000 REP. VEZEY said HJR 45 would eliminate the problem, but you have to go back and read the supreme court decisions. Number 020 REP. KOTT asked if other states use public dollars for transportation of private students. Number 026 REP. VEZEY said that was his understanding, but he couldn't give any case examples. Number 031 REP. KOTT indicated that it was his recollection that there was a U.S. Supreme Court case in the early 80's that afforded states the opportunity to use public dollars to transport children. Number 060 REP. VEZEY said it was his understanding that using public dollars for this type of activity was the norm in most states, but Alaska has a relatively new constitution. Number 074 REP. PORTER asked if there was a motion. Number 080 REP. GREEN asked to withdraw his motion and asked for position papers from the Department of Education and Department of Law. Number 092 REP. NORDLUND requested that the committee get a fiscal note from the Department of Education because Sherrie Goll made a good point that there's a limited amount of dollars available for education in this state, and if we have a whole group of new institutions competing for those dollars, there will be even less dollars for public institutions. Rep. Nordlund continued, saying that it will be a really difficult fiscal note to prepare, but he would like to get some notion of what it would cost. Number 111 REP. PORTER said he was considering that there was an opportunity to save some money with HJR 45. If the amount of money that went to a private institution per student was less than what it cost the public, it would save money, depending on which way you look at it. Number 123 REP. NORDLUND commented that they should at least address that in the Finance Committee. He said he had another request, and that basically he thinks this is a really radical bill because it will open up the floodgates for public education for any private school, conceivably any other kind of school in the state. He added that his interpretation of that might be wrong; there might be other prohibitions either in the state or federal constitution against separation of church and state that would not allow that. Rep. Nordlund said he doesn't think it is clear to the Judiciary Committee what the effect of this bill would be. He said he would like to hear somebody testify to this act, some legal scholar or constitutional scholar or whatever who could come in and say how the courts would likely interpret this if enacted, and what would the effect be on our public education system. He continued, saying he thinks it has far reaching affects, violating the fundamental doctrine that's the separation of church and state, and public funds should not be going to educational systems that are not accountable to the public. Rep. Nordlund objected to putting public funds into private schools in which the public has no handle or accountability. REP. NORDLUND discussed other aspects including which religious schools would be eligible and the ramifications of approving one and denying another. Number 177 REP. PORTER asked Rep. Vezey to get position papers from the Department of Education and the Department of Law. Number 187 REP. VEZEY said he didn't request any fiscal notes from any department other than Elections because there's no appropriation other than the cost of putting HJR 45 on the ballot, and unless the legislature decides to appropriate money, there is not a fiscal note that goes with this. REP. PORTER said he would guess that a position paper from the Department of Education would deal with that issue in any event, and he asked if it would be possible to get the position papers. Number 210 REP. VEZEY said he would be glad to request position papers from the departments. Number 212 REP. PORTER said he would hold the bill until the position papers were available and the committee members had a chance to look them over. Number 222 REP. KOTT asked DUANE GUILEY from the Department of Education to comment on whether or not the state public education system is providing any dollars at the present time, or any materials to private schools. Number 234 MR. GUILEY replied, not at this time; however, the state provides a centralized correspondence study system which is open to all students in the state which does not require a tuition charge and provides textbooks and materials to students enrolled in the program. He added that the students cannot be enrolled simultaneously in the local school system, so they must choose an option. Number 264 REP. PHILLIPS asked what percentage of home schooled children are not in the state correspondence study program. Number 272 MR. GUILEY stated about 500 students. Number 292 REP. PORTER recognized that Senator Dave Donley was in the audience. REP. PORTER said HJR 45 would be held over for further action. ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 2:20 p.m.
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